Friday, 14 January 2011

From breast to bottle: help needed!

On Wednesday I reached my limit. A person can only go without decent sleep for so long, and "so long" in my case seems to be five months. I went out and got some formula for Charlie to see if a bottle at eleven wouldn't make him sleep a little longer, and - crucially - deeper, so he wouldn't ask for his dummy every hour. I'll keep going with the breastfeeding for his other milk feeds, but I need a little help in the night.

I was determined to breast feed exclusively for much longer than six months this time. In an ideal world, I still would. At the weekend, I have great milk even at night. I get to catch up on some sleep, I get some good meals thanks to Babes and his culinary talents. During the week, I seem to run out of milk by the evening. I try to eat and drink regularly and rest enough, but it's impossible. The other two children need attention, too. There's shopping to do, school runs, tidying - well, you know, the work of the household drudge - and I only have so much energy in me. I'd be able to keep it up if I had more help, but I don't and that's all there is to it.

I've been slowly getting Charlie used to eating vegetables and fruit during the day - a spoonful at first, then gradually more. I am saying goodbye to that gorgeous breastfed baby smell. It is also the end of liquid nappies - I'm less sad to see them go. The major change, though, is in his naps. He's sleeping much better during the day. It doesn't take me twenty minutes to get him to sleep, and I don't have to keep going up to give him his dummy.

This boy needs stodgier food than he's been getting. He's a five month old giant, and giants are not satisfied with milk only. I feel bad for him that I've left him feeling unsatisfied for this long. He was obviously getting enough nutrition because he stayed at the top of the growth curves, in both length and weight, but I think he did need a little extra substance. You should have seen him the first time I gave him a spoonful of fruit mush. He was so happy - it was as if he was saying "That's what I've been trying to tell you at the table every night. I needed some decent food!" Now we just needed a similar solution for his night feed. Some stodge. Some nice, sleep-inducing stodge.

So - it's a bottle we need and out I went to get him one. Of course it turned out like that saying "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans." God in this case would have been Charlie. He knew the breasts were around, so he wasn't going to settle for anything less. After a little while - predictably - he won. I've offered him a little bottle before most meals since. He doesn't cry any more - he just chews it. He gets a little bit of formula that way, but nowhere near enough to fill him up. And I need him to suck! Now!

I've tried to trick him by giving him a dummy first and then making the switch. I make sucking noises so he'll get the idea. I let him suck on my hand. I make sure he gets a little taste of the milk first. Occasionally he sucks it by accident, stops himself, then starts to chew again.

Please tell me all your best tricks. Please! I need a night off.

28 comments:

  1. It's tough cos he's going to be used to working hard for his milk and sucking strong. You need to find a bottle that behaves similarly, and you may need to experiment with a mixture of silicon and latex teats. My middle one was dual fed and would only take a latex teat on a bottle which was actually a bag so no air got in. It was a very wide teat and had three tiny holes in it so behaved similar to a breast and took a tough suck to get going. My third would only take a silicon teat and again we had to buy a bottle that let air in the bottom so there was no release-bubble-suck action and he didn't get mouthfuls of air.

    It took us ages to get the right bottle then they grow a bit and you're right back to the beginning! The bag and teat system I got in the US was brilliant as it grew with the child, from three small holes, to larger holes and eventually a cross-cut which let the stuff verily glug out. It's made by Playtex and is a travel system (no sterilising - you buy rolls of bags - tis fab).

    Trial and error - sorry - you probably wanted more help than that huh?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hmmmm. I'll be no help. The first was breastfed until about 8 months when he expressed interest in trying the bottle. He switched easily and then threw it down at 10 months when he mastered the cup. The other two were a lactation consultants nightmare. Really. That's what they said. Would NOT accept the breast but would only take breastmilk in their bottles. I pumped for MONTHS! So, yeah. I have no advice but I really hope you get his feedings figured out. Someone like Ms. Moon will know!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Platex. Big teat. Us. Yes, that's what I used too!

    ReplyDelete
  4. I've been fighting with this with my 4th kid (3 months). None of them were great bottle eaters at all, but with this one, we're leaving her with my mom to go away for 3 days, so it was desperation.

    The only bottles that work were the Adiri Nursers. They feel and look like a boob and she will take them:

    http://www.coolmompicks.com/2007/11/ultimate_bottle.php

    You can get them at Amazon!

    Everyone will tell you that the best thing to do is have someone else try to give him a bottle. He knows he can get it directly from you and most babies generally give moms the hardest time. You might literally need to leave the house because they can smell you!

    I've been able to give my daughter a bottle now for the last few weeks every morning, but my husband still has a hard time. I swear they can smell fear :)

    Good luck!

    (Also, you might try doing a modified sippy cup - AVENT makes a transition nipple between bottle and sippy). That worked for my daughter who would NEVER take a bottle. She was fine with it because it wasn't anything like a nipple.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Been there and suffered through that trying to get mine to take bottles of expressed milk before I went back to work

    Bottom line was that neither of them would take a bottle from me initially, someone else had to do it to get them used to the idea - if I was around it was boobs or nothing

    Once they were used to the idea (and a bit older) they were happy for me to give them a bottle

    Otherwise the best thing was to give them a sippy cup - I found that giving them a drink out of that meant they were used to it and so happy to have milk from it

    Good luck

    ReplyDelete
  6. Oh hun! That has been my Facebook status for about 2 months now... My baby is also a giant and he is on solids now. He WILL NOT drink formula. When we forced hi, he got a rash. He WILL NOT drink rice milk. He only drinks boobies... He eats like a bull, and naps better etc but still, at night, it's boobies. I have not slept for 6 months.
    He drinks juice from his beaker, but if I add any milk to any of his food he refuses to eat. He chomps down the same food made with water...
    I wish I had something better to tell you, but all I can say is that I am on the same boat :(
    The one thing that seems to help at night is that I give Billy his dinner around 7 PM - vegetable puree with added baby rice in it. The boobies at around 9ish and again at around 10.
    He still wakes up 2ice at night to feed, but that's a lot better than every 2 hours.
    Take care

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hmmm. Will he take a bottle if there is breast milk in it? Is it the taste of the formula that he doesn't like yet??
    What if you mix formula with rice cereal so he can have it with a spoon before bed time? Kinda like porridge?
    I use a Tommee Tippee 'closer to nature bottle' with Tate, which works well with boob feeding too, but we've used that since he was 2 wks, so he is used to it.
    Good luck. x

    ReplyDelete
  8. I have very little bottle advice to give as my two were both happy to go with Avent ones. But, I had a very hungry Hamish and one thing that worked for us was giving him an evening feed of Heinz Baby Cereals mixed with formula. Not sure if you'll be able to get them but the porridge and banana cereal worked well for us.

    http://www.heinzbaby.co.uk/products/product-list.aspx?q=NutritionalAge_4to6Months

    ReplyDelete
  9. Unfortunately when you leave it too long, it can be really hard to get them to take a bottle.

    I had trouble with C and what worked in teh end was a Nuk tip, silicon and letting her play with it like a soother for a while (in the bottle top, supervised!). Slow flow teat good advice too.

    The tommy tippee bottles and teats look good too, the sort of breastular ones.

    I've also heard that if you tuck them in tight to you and trick em a bit, they might just accept it. Maybe Babes could try, with one of your jumpers/tops cuddled up to Charlie.

    He's getting big enough for a beaker now too, and maybe you could try cup feeding if he won't take the bottle teat?

    Try www.kellymom.com for more ideas. Rollercoaster always good for tips too.

    ReplyDelete
  10. @MrsW - Well, thanks for trying anyway. :-) I think I'll go shopping and see if I can find something like what you describe. I was hoping to do it with the bottles I have, though - I bought them all for the other two.

    @All This Trouble - My other two switched so easily! I'm glad at least he's happy on my breast. That must be a nightmare.

    @Motherhood Uncensored - They do smell fear. So true. I think I have one of those modified sippy cups in the back of the cupboard. I will try that later. Thanks!
    The amazon thing I will keep as a last resort because it would take three to seven days to get here and I need it now!

    @Muddling Along Mummy - Babes has been trying, but he seems to be having the same problems. Thanks fot the advice!

    @Tatty Franey - Oh you take care too - that's even a month longer than me! And thank you for the advice. I will consider solids at night if it doesn't get better.

    @Rhi - I haven't tried breast milk in a bottle. I've never expressed.
    I'll look into that bottle or solids, thanks.

    @fiona - That's the ones I've been using. Never had a problem with the other two either. Thanks for the link!

    @Jo - Thanks for all that! I never even considered a beaker really. Not sure what you mean by rollercoaster. If I go in, will I get more milk, or is it Charlie who goes in and gets so dizzy he sleeps better?

    ReplyDelete
  11. It's a tough one - I'm not sure what to suggest since both of my boys were glad to finally get a bottle. My only suggestion would be to try rusks as a solid food, he had chew / suck on them, and they're a little more substantial than mushed fruits and veggies.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I don't know. I just do not know. My only suggestions would be to just keep trying and also, to try and let Babes give him the bottle. This is going to take patience. It WILL all smooth out in the end. I swear it will.

    ReplyDelete
  13. @Lady Mama - Rusks already? Isn't it terrible - I forget all about babies between children. I have to learn it all again each time. I have the worst memory in the world. Thanks for the tip!

    @Ms. Moon - Thank you. I will try to keep my eye on the end of the process. My falling-closed weary eyes which sting and don't see so well just now. Those eyes.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Oh, sorry, Mwa. www.rollercoaster.ie - Irish parenting website. The breastfeeding board is full of good advice.

    You can also ask on the Friends of Breastfeeding Forum. www.friendsofbreastfeeding.ie

    But there's probably something similar closer to home.

    ReplyDelete
  15. @Jo - I'm always scared to ask breastfeeding forum-type people. I'm scared they'll be judging me for not being the super earth mother I would like to be. I have some bad experiences with that.

    ReplyDelete
  16. The problem is when boobs and bottles are in the same room, the baby always wants the boobs. Like ALWAYS.

    So for him to take the bottle you need to disappear. Can you sleep somewhere else and have Babes and baby sleep together for a week?
    That way when he wakes his only alternatives are binky, bottle or hairy man-boob.

    I worked all day so my kids had to learn to drink (expressed) milk from a bottle. And because I felt guilty for being gone all day I made myself let them feed on me all night. The only way they transitioned to bottles and water at night was when I had to go out of town for work.

    There may be some crying involved if you're not around, but too bad. You need your rest and he will have an adult there to give comfort and address his needs. By night 3 they get resigned/used to it. Good Luck!!

    p.s. you did not need to justify your desire to have him use a bottle. You know what he and you need. Your instincts are RIGHT!! you don't need our approval or judgment!!

    ReplyDelete
  17. Cubling refused the bottle both from me and hubby, but not from the childminder. I realise this isn't a great tip. Try a cup? Other tip: take fenugreek tablets, 3 days, 3 tablet, 3 times a day (which is more than normal dose, but totally safe) which WILL increase your milk supply.

    I also gave Cubling a bottle, at 4 1/2 months in the evenings when she woke every 30-60 mins and I was going crazy. At that point she still accepted the bottle, but never had more than 1-2 oz, and after 2 weeks I didn't see the point of the sterilising bother. So the not sleeping was not related to lack of milk, although I and the paediatrician were convinced of it. Just saying, I don't want to crush hopes, but the formula fill up doesn't always work. (and I'm not anti formula here!)

    ReplyDelete
  18. @geeks in rome - Thank you for your kindest PS. I was a bit defensive, and I think it's mostly out of a misplaced desire to be perfect. I do have a tendency to use the blog as my personal confessional. I suppose the Catholic guilt still runs deep.

    @cartside - Ummm sterilising. Yes. I'm not really bothering with that. Wash - okay. Sterilising - seems rather pointless as he puts EVERYTHING in his mouth. Including parts of his phlegmy sister, and toys which have been on the floor etc. The one bacterium a cleanly washed botlle will add just doesn't even register with him, I bet.
    Thank you for all your advice. I will bear it in mind. I do have high hopes, though, as he's sleeping so much better during the day now he's on solids. He used to wake up every 20 mins or so as well - earlier he slept for three hours solid and I had to wake him to go out!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hiya. I breastfed excusively for about 3 or 4 months and then started weaning and adding formula too, a bit like you. I must have tried about 8 different brands of bottle on Lara and eventually succeeded with the MAM bottles which suck in air from the bottom to replace the space the milk was taking up - I think this means they have to suck pretty hard to get the milk out.

    good luck. xx

    ReplyDelete
  20. Well what I was going to suggest is the same as some of the girls, fill him up with 'stodge' at dinnertime and then feed before bed, or the rusks.
    I can just recall from my distant past that when I switched to a bottle with my second (I couldn't feed him because of a very nasty rash I had all over my breasts) there was a bit of resistance, but I won in the end.
    I never sterilised the bottle, I was told if I wasn't going to keep the milk in them, then they don't need it.
    By your next post it will probably be all sorted.
    x Sandi

    ReplyDelete
  21. Ever is 6 weeks and we are going to start to try her on bottle with breastmilk inside...this was a great thread of comments for me, too. :))

    ReplyDelete
  22. ugh, that SUCKS! I just hung out with a friend today with an 8 week old who wont take a bottle and she's tried EVERYTHING!
    ps DAX is HUGE too, like 16 pounds at three months. i personally think those growth charts need to be redone tho, hahaha babies are getting bigger dammit!

    ReplyDelete
  23. Persevere. If you want it to happen enough, it will. Babies eventually fall in line...

    ReplyDelete
  24. Use a cup. Mine never understood what bottles were for, they found teats just weird.

    I gave them a free flowing (tommy tippee I think) cup.

    It worked for us, hope it works for you x

    ReplyDelete
  25. LLC had Avent bottles but some of my friends who breastfed did well with the Tommy Tippee bottles like some have suggested as the teats are meant to be "closer to nature." I think once Charlie "gets it" (just keep trying) he'll be grateful to take the milk wherever it comes from, you or the bottle or even better, the cup! My experience with combination feeding is that if given a choice she'd go for he breast but if not given a choice, she'd just do what it took to get her milk.

    ReplyDelete
  26. That's a tough one...you're much more of an expert than I am. I got deathly ill when Finn was 5 weeks...so I had to focus on not dying and gave up nursing. I hope someday we have another baby so I can experience the things I missed.

    I don't know if Charlie is too old for this and also it's more about scheduling, so I don't know if it would be helpful. With formula, Finn was sleeping from 10 pm to 6am and then would often go back to sleep after the feeding in the morning. The book is called babywise (I don't know who the author is, sorry). I just typed a synopsis for my girlfriend who has a 6 week old little girl.

    When Finn started eating solids, we would put formula and cereal in his bottle and that kept him satisfied longer. Finn is a solid, big boy...sounds just like Charlie. But it won't solve your problem if it's getting him to take it from a bottle v. breast.

    So mainly...I'm no help at all.

    Never feel guilty...just reading about your days makes me pretty sure that you're superwoman. What's best for you and Charlie (and you know that as his mother) is the only thing you need to think about.

    I still feel guilt over stopping nursing Finn. But I've had to accept the fact that there's nothing I can do. I have to forgive myself...it's not that easy...it's a process. I'm getting closer every day.

    ReplyDelete
  27. If you want me to email you the synopsis...just email me and I'll pass it along!

    ReplyDelete
  28. Been there, toooo! Oh God, and how it sucked. (The situation, not the baby, mind you.) In the end it was Avent bottles with bigger teats than recommended (my boobs were fast-flowing - why shouldn't the bottle be) and Aptamil ready made (I think it's Milupa in Germany, could be the same in Belgium?). Little L would never take the powder stuff, only the ready made cartons. Oh, and it got much easier the more solids I introduced. Little L was a big fan of Hipp Vollkorn Babybrei. I ordered the stuff from Germany.
    Good luck!! xx

    ReplyDelete

Leave a comment, make my day!